The Walther PP (Polizei Pistole) was produced since 1929. It was a modern and revolutionary constuction. Serial numbers: 165126P - 390653P: The Walther PP is split in 5 major variations, according to caliber, acceptance, code and finish. Black, chequered Bakelit grips with Walther-Banner: Serial number: 6-digit number with 'P' right on.
Just spent an interesting hour talking with a nice old WWII USAAF vet who flew P-47s in Italy and then France after D-day. He brought back a number of war souvenirs, one of which was a Walther PPK. I don't have a photo, but it's in about 95% condition, high polish blue, with brown Walther banner plastic stocks. The only magazine has a finger rest, also brown plastic.
The slide reflects Zella Mehlis manufacture. It has a small proof on the left side of the slide - not having a magnifying glass, I could not make it out clearly, but I recall no number under the eagle, so it's not a waffenamt. I think this is a commercial gun. The serial number is 285930, no suffix.
We've got a lot of knowledgeable folks on the board - can anyone tell me the year of manufacture? I'm estimating 1940, but I cannot glean much info of the internet. I understand Hoffschmidt's Know your Walther PPK book has a serial number chart, but I don't happen to have one.
Can anyone help me help this member of the greatest generation? Thanks, John (Added 10/21/14) See pictures on post #4! Ser# 285,xxx on a Walther PPK (ZellaMellis) should have a 'K' suffix to the number on the frame. The matching ser# marked on the right side of the slide was generally with-out the suffix.
Serial numbering for the PP pistol started at #75,000 (1929) PPK production started shortly after that (maybe late 31 or '32) and used the same serial number range as the PP model. When ser#'s reached 1,000,000 for each Model,the numbers were started over again at the 100,000,plus the addition of a 'P' suffix on the PP and a 'K' suffix on the PPK. (A few thousand run of PPk's were ser#'d with so called 7 digit numbers (million series),no suffix letter. There's always an exception isn't there.
I don't have a ser# chart handy,it's some where in the stack. But I'd agree that with the ser# (assuming it does or SHOULD have the 'K' suffix,1940 or 41 would be a good guess. The high polish blue and fine fit and overall finish was still in order at that time. It wasn't long after that shortcuts started to show but they were gradual at first. Commercial proofs would be in order.
At about that time the German Gov't proof mark was being changed to the Eagle/N for nitro proof. 4/1/40 was the date that the old German Crown/N nitroproof mark was elliminated and replaced with the Eagle/N. That can help date the pistol to either side of that date. But realize that changes didn't happen overnight, on time or in any perfect order.
Another mark to look for if not a German Military issue weapon (no WaffenAmpt),would be possible German Police Issue. A tiny Eagle/L or Eagle/C marking is all there was. Sometimes on the frame on the left side right under the mag release,or in that area. May also be on the slide, on the right side usually. Any of the proof, Military issue or (Nazi) Police markings would be marked/stamped thru the original finish,not before it was blued.
Check the magazine to see if it is perhaps #'d to the pistol. On the finger extension, the serial number was often pantograph engraved into that extension. Sometimes stamped into the mag body on either side or even the spine of the mag.
Not a lot of hard and fast rules however! I'll see if I can find that list. (I've got that book, but I don't recall a ser# chart in it,unless it was an addendum page and I lost it.
I'll check it anyway) Added. I found a listing of ser#'s from the old Walther board. I think it's been published in a book so I won't post it. It says PPK mfg in 1940 as betw ser#'s 262,xxx and 307,2xx (all with a suffix K) Any production year/ser# lists for the PPk and PP are based on old records outside of Factory production records, those no longer exist AFAIK.
In other words they are an educated guess, but in most cases fairly accurate. Hope this helps. Today I got to re-visit the old WWII vet, and he graciously allowed me to photograph his Walther PPK, which I now estimate as having been made in early July, 1940. The serial number does indeed have the 'K' suffix, which I missed in my early examination under dim light. It also shows commercial 'Eagle over N' proof marks. There was no serial number anywhere on the magazine. Here are some pics: And here's a picture of the old gent himself, posing with a model of a P-47 complete with his old squadron colors, and his PPK.
![Walther Pp Serial Numbers Chart Walther Pp Serial Numbers Chart](http://www.tague.at/pistolen/images/Walther%20PP%20167732P%20rechts.jpg)
It was an honor and a privilege to talk with him; the WWII combat vets have been my heroes since childhood. Hope you enjoy the pictures.
Hey everyone, My dad told me about my Grandfather's walther that he brought back from WWII that he took off a German soldier. I was wondering if there are some good databases out there where I could look up the history of the pistol? Any info is appreciated.
All I know is that the slide is longer than the modern day PPK and the caliber was not printed anywhere on the pistol itself. Hopefully one day I'll get to see and shoot it. Quick question on older firearms. Is modern day ammo safe to use in them and for the PP/PPK series of pistols, do current magazines fit in them?
Thanks again. Click to expand.You had better check your soures again. Both the PP u. PPK went into the 900,000 range and then, in about 1940, started over with a letter (P or K) after the ser nr. By wars end they were, I believe, again in the 400,000 range with the letter. You left out one caliber for both pistols - 6.35mm (25acp). Many more 7.65 (32acp) pistols were made than the other 3 calibers combined.
Thus the 7.65 PP is not at all rare, or even uncommon. The PPK is a bit more so, but still not rare. Click to expand.My GF, a French model whom I met on the internet, assures me that they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true.
grin Respectfully, Sarge. My source was posted, take it for what it is. Do you have a source for your numbers or are you extrapolating(guessing) based on serial number ranges? I don't know how one can base production numbers of the PP based on serial numbers considering where the numbering started in 1929 at serial number 750000, restarted at 10000 in 1938 and that the numbering for the PP and PPK were intermingled up to 1938. I thought the OP was speaking of 'Nazi Walther PPs', but even in the same source there are several different numbers: My source for the following is 'The Walther Handgun Story' by Gene Gangarosa: When Walther began its production, PP serial number started at 750000. In 1938 when they reached one million, they restarted numbering at 10000 P and reached 396000 P by the end of the war. Total PP production from 1929 to 1945 is estimated at half a million.
One expert on German pistol use has estimated that the German Armed forces may have procured as many as 84000(.hmmmm, this number sounds familiar) Model PPs during the war. By war's end approx, 200000 Model PPs has seen service in German Police and military service since 1929. Also from the same author: Walther's production of the.25 caliber PP manufactured only in 1929 and 1930 was simply a test to see whether the gun would sell in this caliber. The.25 proved to be unpopular and Walther hurriedly ceased production. Rather than make a separate die to mark the slide on the.25 caliber models a standard.32 caliber die with the caliber marking left off. The '6.35mm' designation engraved by hand.
The.25 caliber PP magazine was a gutted.32 magazine with a model 8 magazine inserted. So again, all these production numbers are speculative; but, your number based on serial number range and assuming all PP production was only for the German Armed forces is way too high and not really related to the original discussion.
My source for much of my info on PP u. PPK pistols is James Rankins 3 vol set on Walther pistols. I think he gives a lot more detail than Gangarosa. In fact I don't find a copy of his book in my library for some reason. Well I had thought it was the PPK that started at 750K, but even if they both did there is still 250K+ pistols before the 2nd series = letter after the nr, started since PPKs are known into the 1 Million range. Then from the 100,000 P u. K 2nd series they went into the high 400K range which is another 300,000+ pistols for a total of 750,000+ pistols of both types.
I made no claim that all production of either pistol was strictly for the military. There were undoubtably more made for civilian and paramilitary sales than for the military. Does Gangarosa claim that only 83,000 were made for the military?
Sure does seem like a low nr since guns with WaA show up with some regularity. Click to expand.Here's my story. My grandfather came back from the war and was bummed about not being able to bring back anything.
His cousin was able to bring back a Walther PP and gave to grandpa. Now I am 'borrowing it.'
I took it to a gun shop to see if they could tell me anything about it. All of the numbers match. There is the Nazi eagle, but without the swastika. So it was made before the war (I was told). The shop told me that after the US leveled the factory and took over in various places, the US started putting together firearms with whatever parts they could find.
He said that it is harder to find the PP/PPK's with all matching numbers. He said normal value would be around $600-700 or so, but because of these details (and the excellent condition), it was closer to $1000 for a replacement value. Not looking at selling, but I was curious. Mine shoots the 32acp. It shoots fine other than sometimes it will double fire with a single trigger pull. As soon as the slide racks back into place, the round in waiting will fire. Does anyone know if those firing pins are free floating and I am possibly having a 'slam fire' of sorts?
If you are interested, watch the youtube video on how to disassemble the PP. Me thinks your gun shop is full of it! Sounds like their knowlege of Walthers is about equal to that of the average 3rd grader.
![Walther Pp Serial Numbers Chart Walther Pp Serial Numbers Chart](http://www.tague.at/pistolen/images/SN%20Walther.jpg)
If the eagle you are talking about is on the bbl in the ejection port and on the slide below it then there should be an N under the eagles. That is the commercial firing proof. And Yes the gun is wartime since the change from crown N to eagle N came in 1940.
The US did Not level the factory! The ruskies did post war. The Germans had begun to assemble mismatched pistols at the very end of the war. Those will have poor finish, wood grips and no slide markings. Those pistols are very uncommon. I would guestimate that 95% of all Walther PP u.
PPK pistols have matching numbers. Except for those made late in the war any Walther that is mismatched was one done by someone post war. As for the double fire I would guess that the firing pin spg might be broken.
An easy fix as parts are available.